jiyuuhonpou: ([hetalia] ice cream)
[personal profile] jiyuuhonpou
JEEZ IT ONLY TOOK ME EIGHT DAYS TO GET TO THEM. FUCKING FINALLY *gets bricked*

I have to say if you didn't see this coming from Day 01, then you know nothing about me at all! I tried to stay on-topic, but this post is basically a disjointed horrible failure of an attempt to sort out my feelings about the pairing. People are entitled to their own opinions about pairings and I respect that!

But this is my journal, and I post what I want. Consider yourself forewarned.


day.08 - The pairing with the most baggage?
Screencapped this myself from my copy of the Fandisc, which I bought solely for the cover.
United States of America (Alfred F. Jones)/United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Arthur Kirkland) [Axis Powers Hetalia]

So, so much emotional baggage between these two, WHERE DO I START. I could just say "300+ years of tsundere" and leave it at that, but even if I throw the history of Anglo-American relations out of the window and run strictly by what's shown in Hetalia!canon, there's no denying these two have Issues With A Capital "I".

Emotionally stunted lonely dude with generally unhappy childhood meets and promises fluffy cute baby who melts his cold heart that they'll support each other? Series of misunderstandings/arguments lead formerly-cute ward, now all grown up, to reject familial relationship with lonely dude ("I'm no longer your younger brother"), aided by the help of said lonely dude's sworn enemy?

Yeah, those experiences would drive a guy to drink.

Hell, Arthur himself owns up to Not Quite Being Over It twice in Hetalia!canon: I'm talking about in Chapter 3 where Arthur gets drunk with Alfred, proceeds to complain about how he thought they would be friends after the French-Indian War, and then starts crying and calling Alfred an idiot. Keep in mind that this strip supposedly takes place around WWII, over 150 years after America declared independence from Great Britain! Kind of a long time for you to be reopening old wounds there, Arthur!

And of course, there's his drunken interview in the Christmas Rampage:

When someone that you really care about won't return it in the same way, it's difficult, but you won't move on if you get crushed by it. It's happened to me where I spent 100 years of heartbreak just being hung up on the past...
100 years of heartbreak. People Who Think Arthur Doesn't Give a Fig About No Stinkin' Revolution, your arguments have just been invalidated.

Arthur's emotional baggage even manifests into physical symptoms of distress whenever July 4 rolls around! He can't eat or sleep! He has nightmares!! For the whole week!! As late in the game as 2007!!!

SERIOUSLY. WHAT.

Feeble pretext to attend American Independence Day celebrations or not, that statement speaks volumes about how much the past still haunts Arthur. It's not the only piece of luggage revolving around their Emotional Baggage Claim, but for sure it's one of the bigger ones they'll have to unpack in order to have a healthy relationship.  Annnnnnd I'll stop with the lame baggage puns now kthx.

(I'm not saying Arthur's the only one who Can't Get Over It, though; Alfred can't clean out his damn storage room decades after the fact without wibbling about it. Nor can he apparently eat delicious homemade cooking by Toris without remembering the not-so-delicious meals Arthur used to make for him. And he looked pretty damn happy when Arthur came to his birthday party, and genuinely surprised that Arthur gave him a gift.)

And while J-fen beats the shit out of the koi vs. ai debate, that would definitely count as an Issue for Alfred and Arthur. Clearly I'm in the "mutual romantic love" camp, but I can see both of them thinking that the other one is only seeking familial love (the "he loves me but he's not in love with me" issue.) I can also definitely see both of them feeling guilty about harboring more-than-familial feelings for each other (the "I'm in love with my former ward/guardian!" issue.)

I guess their personalities would count as an Issue too, since Arthur expresses his feelings rather cynically, and Alfred chooses to interpret Arthur's signals the wrong way. Basically, a stubborn AKY and stubborn Tsundere pairing is going to have serious Communication Issues, regardless of any extensive angst-ridden past history between the two.

[While it's never brought up in canon, there's also the whole issue of being the personification of a country - if Alfred and Arthur are the national personifications of their countries, then which feelings are their "own" feelings as individuals, and to what extent, if any, does the majority opinion of their people have an influence on those feelings?

I like to think that even though Alfred would choose independence for his people no matter what, he had a mild case of Teenage Emo Angst during the beginning of the Revolutionary War where he got confused about whether he wanted independence or not, to the point where he doubted his feelings were even his, and then Francis kind of talked him through it. Or something like that.

Following that train of thought... wouldn't that bring up Trust Issues as well? A "you're just trying to get in my good graces to have access to my resources" kind of thing? There's probably Trust Issues regardless of the to-feel-or-not-to-feel debate anyway, since I could maybe sort of see Arthur reasoning "you rejected me once, what's to say you won't leave me again". Less so with Alfred, but the possibility's still there.]

SO if there's so much emotional baggage attached to their relationship, does that mean they should cut their losses and move on?

No fucking way.

Call it fujoshi sickness American optimism, but even with all that emotional baggage... I still want them to have a derpy happy ending. Because damn it, they're my Hetalia OTP. Although tsundere UST is fine by me!

tl;dr AlAsa=poster boys for IT'S COMPLICATED, srsly.

The rest of the days:
# Day 09 - The most believable relationship?
# Day 10 - Why aren't these two married in real life?
# Day 11 - What is your dream pairing?
# Day 12 - Who had the best wedding?
# Day 13 - What is your favorite television pairing?
# Day 14 - What is your favorite book pairing?
# Day 15 - What is your favorite real life pairing?
# Day 16 - What is the absolute worst pairing?
# Day 17 - A pairing you thought would never work out, but did?
# Day 18 - What is the cutest pairing?
# Day 19 - A pairing you've rooted for since the beginning?
# Day 20 - The "can't stand the sexual tension anymore" pairing?
# Day 21 - A pairing you like and no one else understands why?
# Day 22 - A pairing you hate and no one else understands why?
# Day 23 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out great?
# Day 24 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out badly?
# Day 25 - A pairing that was/would-be adorable, but could never work out?
# Day 26 - A pairing that you hated and ended up loving?
# Day 27 - A pairing that you loved and ended up hating?
# Day 28 - A pairing that you will never understand?
# Day 29 - What ship had the best proposal?
# Day 30 - Your favorite ship forever and ever and ever!

I got nothing for tomorrow. Nothing! And possibly nothing for the rest of this meme. Stupid self-imposed no fandom repeats rule!

Date: 2010-07-08 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equivalent-t.livejournal.com
People Who Think Arthur Doesn't Give a Fig About No Stinkin' Revolution

Wait what, those people exist? Hate the pairing all you want, dude, but that's a Really Significant Part of Arthur's character right there. It's the biggest heartbreak in his life, all 1,500 years of it.

I mean, there are pairings I don't like at all, but denying them kind of gets you nowhere except making you look like an ass?

Date: 2010-07-08 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
I've seen the argument made that the US Revolutionary War isn't as important of an event in British history as US/UK shippers like to think it is. While that argument might fly in a history debate, it sure as hell doesn't fly in a Hetalia!canon debate. 100 years of heartbreak, people! Shippy or not, that's not a statement a character would make about a relationship that didn't mean anything.

Agreed. The question of "is there canon evidence for it" needs to be treated differently than "do I like it"; otherwise, you look kind of foolish.

Date: 2010-07-08 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equivalent-t.livejournal.com
Ah, those. I've seen those around. Most of them also seem to have the assumption that US/UK shippers ship US/UK because UK is UKe, and that's a little funny since it hardly holds true in all of fandom. XD

I am actually a fan of Britain+Europe as far as RealPolitik goes and would argue that the Special Relationship is not as world-ending as most of us makes it sound. In RealPolitik context. But it's rather foolish to make that same assumption of the characters. It may not be important to us, and it may not be important to the history books, but it's important to them and that's what matters in a ship debate. (Speaking theoretically : if a heartbreak that takes you years to recover from, the betrayal of a person who is the reason you learned how to be happy, does not affect your work record, does it mean you'll look back at the end and think it's not an important event in your life? I doubt it.)

Date: 2010-07-08 06:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
I think the "Special Relationship" is terribly one-sided and more or less obsolete... and that's coming from an American. But that's neither here nor there, because this isn't a discussion about real world international relations. It's a discussion about characters in a work of fiction where the characters have defined personalities and interactions with other characters. So yeah, fandom kind of fails at separating the two!

And yeah, I can see why people prefer FrUK or shimaguni or other non-US/UK pairings, but denying that Arthur and Alfred's (romantic, brotherly, guardian/ward, however you choose to interpret it) relationship wasn't a defining event to either of them, even now, is kind of dumb! And also wrong!

Most of them also seem to have the assumption that US/UK shippers ship US/UK because UK is UKe
Ugh, not that lame argument again. Maybe it's me, but I feel like the seme-UK fans are much more vocal and wanky about it than the UKe fans are. I'm just gonna stay here in my riba-friendly corner, thanks.

Date: 2010-07-08 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equivalent-t.livejournal.com
This fandom especially sucks at separating, but I think I've ranted enough about history canon vs. character canon to last a lifetime. (Possibly before we met, however.)

Riba-friendly corners are the best corners. Unfortunately, that means we're available for hand grenade-lobbing from both seme and uke populations. :/ Ah well, at least we get all the hot stuff, no bars held?

Date: 2010-07-08 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
...you know this means I'm going to have to poke around your old entries, right?

Riba is where the party's at! I don't mind dodging a couple of grenades from disgruntled fans in the name of hot stuff. >:D

Date: 2010-07-08 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equivalent-t.livejournal.com
........I don't exactly have entry tags going back that far? Although, basically, this was one of the reasons I stopped participating in fandom or translate stuff under my own name. It's annoying to see half your replies concern themselves with either THANK YOU SQUEE or BUT REAL HISTORY IS, haha.

That sounds like such a small party. XD Oh well, I dislike large crowds anyway!

derailed reply is derailed

Date: 2010-07-08 07:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
LMAO I imagine you get the worst of it since you translated the major strips. I just get the "UK U DRUNK" or "I live in America and we have this magic store called 7-11, also the weather here is craaaaaaaazy!" replies. Fandom.

It might be small, but all the cool kids are there! XDDDD

Date: 2010-07-08 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twistedsheets10.livejournal.com
I think the "Special Relationship" is terribly one-sided and more or less obsolete... and that's coming from an American. But that's neither here nor there, because this isn't a discussion about real world international relations. It's a discussion about characters in a work of fiction where the characters have defined personalities and interactions with other characters. So yeah, fandom kind of fails at separating the two!

YES YES YES THIS.

OVER 9000 THIS.

NO WAIT I HAVE MORE TO ADD.

I actually have this huge-ass multipart fic addressing this point /bricked. Even if the whole Special Relationship whatever in RL fails, IT DOESN'T MATTER, because in HETALIA canon, even without it, these two pretty much show that they do care for each other. SERIOUSLY. And I'm sick and tired of fangirls going "OH NOES" every time there's news "the Special Relationship is over."
Edited Date: 2010-07-08 09:49 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-07-09 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
ahaha I guiltily admit that I fujoshi-smile whenever I see Anglo-American relations mentioned IRL, but I do try my best to keep my Real Life opinions and Hetalia!canon opinions separate.

TBH I'm more annoyed at the anti-USUK fans going BAHAHA SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP IS OVER. What-the-fuck-ever dudes, it doesn't mean that the relationship between the two anthropomorphic characters is dead and meaningless!

Date: 2010-07-09 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twistedsheets10.livejournal.com
Don't worry, you are not alone. NO I DID NOT SQUEE OVER OBAMA AND CAMERON HAVING A BET OF BEERS FOR WORLD CUP WHAT ARE YOU SAYING.

EXACTLY. Come ON, these guys obviously in one way or the other care about each other. And Hetalia canon has shown that countries HAVE feelings separate from their own government/policies/whatever

Uh yes. /shameless It's unfinished, and I like to call it "My ode to the US/UK ship, let me show it" fic. /sobs

Date: 2010-07-10 02:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
I was all over the US ambassador and UK ambassador betting dinner for the US-England match XDDDDDD

Date: 2010-07-08 05:57 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-07-08 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fujiappletan.livejournal.com
I LOVE THIS POST SO MUCH I CAN'T EVEN TALK JUST
EVERYTHING
EVERYTHING YOU SAID
I AGREE SFM

Date: 2010-07-08 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
I TRIED TO MAKE SENSE BUT I FAILED
AT LEAST YOU UNDERSTAND ME
LOL

Date: 2010-07-08 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fujiappletan.livejournal.com
IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE
BUT THEN THIS IS ME SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY ANYWAY
orz

Date: 2010-07-08 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE TELEPATHIC

Date: 2010-07-09 06:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fujiappletan.livejournal.com
I'M ALWAYS THINKING THAT

Date: 2010-07-08 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kasumicc.livejournal.com
I have no time right on this moment, but...

SQUEE ♥

Date: 2010-07-08 06:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
LOL thanks ♥ Glad to know I enable procrastination ^_~

I have work and yet I am replying to this.

Date: 2010-07-08 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twistedsheets10.livejournal.com
ILU man. SO MUCH. YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.

(or, in truth, my fic. hahahaha)

People Who Think Arthur Doesn't Give a Fig About No Stinkin' Revolution

Clearly, these people are not reading the same manga as we are WHAT THE FUCK. Arthur CARES. VERY HARD.

(I mean, they both care about each other, I don't care what you ship THIS IS HARD CANON FACT.)

I like to think, and I have mentioned this before, that they both have mutual unrealized feelings. Because you know. Communication is an issue for them.

It's pretty much headcanon for me Arthur rarely, if ever, makes appearances in his birthday. You can count in ONE HAND the times he showed up.

Re: I have work and yet I am replying to this.

Date: 2010-07-09 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiipinay.livejournal.com
*high-fives you* Clearly they're not. For chrissakes, the guy literally feels sick for a week every time Independence Day rolls around! HATERS NEED TO STEP TO THE SIDE THAT IS OPPOSITE OF RIGHT ON THIS ONE, sry2say!

Communication is an issue for them.
Hell yes it is! I don't think that bad communication is the root of all their problems, but a lot of their Issues could be resolved if they, just, you know, talked that shit out. It'll probably be some time before they get to the point where either of them feel comfortable enough to properly express their feelings, since they both aren't really good at expressing themselves to begin with (Arthur's tsundere versus Alfred's AKYness) and probably are misinterpreting each other's signals.

Plus, they're stubborn prideful bastards. :D

Arthur rarely, if ever, makes appearances in his birthday
AGREED. I don't think Alfred would have acted so surprised in the Happy Birthday strip if Arthur was a regular attendee at July 4th festivities ;)

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